Drawing the Line on "church" Collaboration

Unstoned passed an article my way that was both encouraging and challenging.

Click Here for the article

Below is a dialogue I have started with the author of the article.

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I read an article entitled "Acceptible Worship" from "The Way" on the website liveasif.org. Best I can tell you wrote the article and I wanted to let you know that I was greatly encouraged by it. I am a young pastor (32yo) and I am starting my third year in the pastorate of a rural Baptist church in Alabama. I have grown greatly distressed over the passed couple of years at the lack of reverence for God and the lack of true biblical conversions in the "church". I quote the word "church" with the understanding that all members of Christ's true church have been truly converted but unfortunately we have populated our roles with unregenrate people and have placed them in leadership postions without ever having had them meet biblical qualifications. I digress......

Your article spoke to me specifically in the area of cooperation between true churches and those who "claim" to be of the faith. The scriptures are clear that we are not all on the same team and that there will be and are those who will seek to decieve even the elect (Matt 24:24). Unless we are preaching and adhering to sound biblical doctrines then we are in direct violation of the word of God (1 Tim 1:3, 6:3, Titus 1:9, 2:1). If a "church" is in violation of teaching sound biblical doctrines, then how can a true church colaborate with them on kingdom efforts?

I recently had a family member rave about the preaching and ministry of "lifechurch.tv". I looked into it only to find myself divided on what I though about it. The pastor states that his prayer is for ALL churches to become "one" (see one article at: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080404/31809_LifeChurch_Readies_%27One_Prayer%27_Launch_for_Global_Church_Impact.htm). Here is a quote from the article:

"At Life Church, Groeschel plans to preach "Make Us One" and thereafter show video messages from other pastors including Ed Young of Fellowship Church whose one prayer is to make the church "creative;" Perry Nobel of NewSpring Church whose prayer is "Make Us Dangerous;" and Jentezen Franklin of Free Chapel who will teach "Make Us Passionate."

Do we "the church" not exist for Christ and His glory? Each of the above statements has to do with "make us"..... If we are in Christ has He not already made us something greater than the above list? Are we not now holy and righteous for His names sake?

I struggle with my own skepticism and negativity here, but I could not help but relate it to what you wrote. I think the bible is clear that those who are of the faith are united and that we as pastors and elders MUST be diligent to protect the flock from the enemy, even if the enemy appears to be a sheep.

Your thoughts?
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Please feel free to comment or add your thoughts.....

Sovereignty, Security and Service

Romans 9:15-23
15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

Salvation belongs to our God (Revelation 7:10). It is not something man can set his mind on to accomplish or achieve (human will). Nor is it something that can be attained through hard work and dedication (exertion). The word exertion carries a pretty heavy meaning in the Greek. It denotes going through extreme situations, even perilous that require one’s total effort to overcome. In other words, all of our strength, stamina, wisdom and ability could not attain what we need. God will have mercy on whom He chooses. To some, this seems inconsiderate or unloving. But the miracle here is that He will have mercy at all.

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

No one has earned God’s mercy. The point made is no one could. We are the vessels of mercy, those that have been born again (John 3). God chooses to reveal to us the riches of His glory, not ours. This glory is realized as we look out at this dark world and see what we were before God’s grace struck our hearts and opened our eyes. What mercy. What grace. What love. What power. Salvation indeed belongs to our God and He gives to whom He chooses.

In this sovereignty lies security. I would be lying if I said I never have doubts about my salvation. As I look back on my life, I am disgusted at things I once enjoyed, even ashamed. But as I look at my current life, again I am disgusted at the instances of disobedience and sin that mark moments in my spiritual walk. But it is not up to me. Salvation, that is.

Obedience, on the other hand is a choice. Do we live in Christ and His power? Yes. Do we often rely on our own power (which has been proven to be useless)? Yes. But each step of obedience begins with a step of faith. Faith that God will see it through and will make the necessary provisions, for His purpose. And even though we play no part in obtaining salvation (except for faith in Christ – a gift in itself - His deity and His humanity and the giving of His life on the cross and His resurrection), we are given several opportunities throughout the New Testament to see the importance of our obedience.

Here is the service.

Romans 12:1-2
1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

This is one of many. But in verse 1 Paul uses the word therefore. You can read Romans 1-11 to grasp the gravity of this word, but basically: We were vile sinners, dead in our sins. God showed us grace through His son Jesus Christ that those who believe in Him would be saved. And as stated in the opening, this was none of our doing but of God’s to show us the riches, the abundance, the plentitude, the fullness of His grace.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Therefore, let us give our lives to this glorious King. I beg you to pray that I would do so, for I am not my own, but I have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Church Repentance Resolution Passed at SBC 08

Here is a link to an excellent blog site that reports on the the recent passing of a Resolution concerning church membership and discipline.

Founders Blog

It can also be found on the most excellent "Expositor" blog:

The Expositor (Indianapolis #3)


For those who are interested; the below is a comment I placed on "The Expositor" site:

I am ecstatic to see that our denominational leadership is finally coming to an understanding of the silent corruption that has embedded itself within our local church bodies. Week after week, local fellowships are adding cancers to the body instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to surgically remove the portions which are unregenerate. Many have become so "my" church minded that they forget entirely that we are to make disciples of all nations and preach the gospel to every tongue and tribe. There is way too much focus on building "My" church instead of building Christ's church. We are HIS witnesses (Act 1:8) and not our own.

The body of Christ is holy and precious, not the cool Starbucks flavor of the day. We gather at Christ's calling and are born again at the imputation of His righteousness. Somewhere in all of this lies the deceptive work of the adversary who wants to infiltrate growing and healthy fellowships. In doing so, membership roles grow but spiritual rebirth and depth does not.

Why is it that many senior adults that have been in local fellowships their entire adult life cannot intelligently iterate the basic fundamentals of the gospel? Why is it that middle aged and young adults who have supposedly been Christians since they were "Baptized" at age 6 come no closer to intelligently iterating the gospel truths as their senior counterparts? Church discipline has been lacking for too long and the body of Christ is suffering from its effects.

Last night while ministering to a non-church member in our community he made the comment that he knew he needed to be "going to church". My words to him were that my desire was to see him saved and not necessarily a member of our local church. If he is converted by the Spirit of God than the desire for fellowship among the saints will be implanted by the same God who saves.

Let us also repent of our "my" church focus and focus on growing the kingdom of God.

The Prosperity Gospel

Psalm 25:11-14
11For Your name's sake, O LORD, Pardon my iniquity, for it is great. 12Who is the man who fears the LORD? He will instruct him in the way he should choose. 13His soul will abide in prosperity, And his descendants will inherit the land. 14The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant. (NASB)

In verse 13, David mentions prosperity and inheritance. The cross references in this passage lead us to Matthew 5:5, which says:

5"Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth. (NASB)

What is this inheritance and what is this prosperity? Are the TV EV's right after all? Are we as Christians really entitled to a better life according to God's Word?

I believe this inheritance speaks of the eternal inheritance that we will see when the new earth is presented. And I believe a portion of this prosperity shows itself in verse 14.

14The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant. (NASB)

What does the Psalmist mean by the secret of the Lord? This indicates intimacy, close friendship between those who fear the Lord and the Lord God Almighty Himself. Jesus Christ echoed this sentiment in John 17:3.

3"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (NASB)

To know God. To have a close, intimate friendship with the one and only true God that we once hated. To have His covenant revealed to us, His friends.

I wish I could say that I had severed all my worldly desires, but I know that would be a lie. I don't desire the big house or the Mercedes or the overpriced Bob Timberlake clothing from Bass Pro Shops. But I still have other desires that stem from a love of the things of this world.

I pray that I would cut the remaining ties to this temporal world because I know that the love and the life that God has to offer is far better than anything we could imagine.

1 Corinthians 2:9
9However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" (NIV)

Grace Fellowship Church Plant

Below is an update from Brother Steve Chamblee who is the pastor of a church plant in Vail, AZ called Grace Fellowship. I will be flying out to visit and pray with them in August and to help in any way that I can. Please pray for there community and that the Lord will soften the hearts of the lost in that area.

Preach the Word Bro. Steve!!!

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Greetings!

Well, i finally get to email you from my own home today (we finally
got internet connection) so i don't have to go & scavenge from others
wifi...

this week, our team is helping a fellow church planter (Ashley &
Bridgett Evans). Ashley is planting on the other side of Vail in an
area called Corona De Tucson...about 20 minutes away.

I actually went to Mobile College w/ Ashley twenty years ago ( o my
gosh! did i just say that?). We knew each other vaguely while there,
but God has brought us together after all these years to network in
His Kingdom - isn't God awesome that way?

anyway, Ashley & his team are launching in August...this week they are
hosting VBS at Corona Foothills Middle School (where their church will
be mtg). We are helping them. I am working w/ 3rd graders, Jay has a
pre K class, Shari is doing learning activities & Denise is teaching
Bible stories, Drew & Zach are assisting in games, and the rest of the
kids are attending..

last night was our first night and we had 41 kids! It is really cool
to have only been here a week and already networking w/ other
believers in the Kingdom!

please pray for the children this week that God would save many.
There is also a group from Ashley's home church (North Carolina)
helping w/ VBS ( its been refreshing to hear more southern accents)

Jay and I are taking my next door neighbor, Rick golfing next week
(its a tough job, but someone has to do it)...actually, golf has
nothing to do w/ our golfing trip - its all about Rick (pray!)

in the next couple of weeks, we are going to be hosting a neighborhood
get together at our home...God gave us a house w/ a built in gas grill
and a nice backyard for such a thing...

please pray for our neighbors to be receptive and attend.

continue to pray for us, our neighbors (Chrissy & Rick, Brandon &
Juliett, Mike & Gloria & others we haven't met yet)

Please pray, too, for Kyle...Kyle has been bitten on the leg by
something and it has left some kind of whep that is huge & red... he
is acting fine, but his leg is sore.

We love you, all! Thanks for your partnership through your
friendship, prayers & other ways

blessings!

Steve
Steve Chamblee
Senior Pastor
Grace Fellowship
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How NOT to Pray

Well, to follow up on that Deep post by Jodey, allow me to throw a little humor your way:

How NOT to Pray

Funny stuff, but I'll admit to being convicted by it as well. I've prayed some of the example prayers, at different times.

The War

When you woke up this morning did you realize that you would be in a battle? Just as a general plots out battle scenarios we too should be as wise.

Humans are enthralled in one of two wars daily:

1. They are at war with the flesh that their born again spirit lives within
   17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
2. They at war with God (often without realizing it)
   

There are many passages in the scriptures that make clear the relationship between the Lord and His enemies:
The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. Psalm 5:5

Romans 1:18-32 and also Romans 5

In the 8th century BC there was a prophet named Jonah who (reluctantly) went to the great city of Nineveh to preach the word of the Lord.

Jonah did not preach some elaborate sermon with multiple points and scriptural cross references. He spoke EIGHT words to the people (of course these eight words are and English translation from the Hebrew).....

Jonah 3:4 Jonah began to go into the city, going a day's journey. And he called out, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

Then in verse 5-9 the people who heard the word repented or "turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands".

5 And the people of Nineveh believed God. They called for a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them to the least of them. 6 The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, 8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.”


What does this have to do with war?

Why do we not see entire cities repenting today? Paul sums this up in Romans 1 by giving us a vivid understanding of what happens to a people who hear the word of God and do not repent:

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. Romans 1:28-32

These are the ones who do not even realize the war that they are in. It is a war that will ultimately be lost by their own selfish attempts to be right with God via works and methods instead of clinging to the Sacrificial Lamb of Jesus Christ and His atoning work on the cross.

Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. Revelation 2:16

For those who are of the faith and are at war with the flesh....

but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Romans 7:23

What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions[1] are at war within you? James 4:1

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. 1 Peter 2:11

Put in the whole armor of God and WAGE WAR! Not against the devil and his demons.... AGAINST YOURSELF!

The devil has no authority over us nor does he have the power to destroy us.... We waste our time fighting an enemy who has pitted us against ourselves.

"Nobody goes to hell because of satan. The only reason someone goes to hell is BECAUSE OF SIN!" Dr. John Piper

Ephesians 6:10-20
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, 19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.


11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

These schemes are my sin.... my greatest enemy is myself.