Unstoned passed an article my way that was both encouraging and challenging.
Click Here for the article
Below is a dialogue I have started with the author of the article.
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I read an article entitled "Acceptible Worship" from "The Way" on the website liveasif.org. Best I can tell you wrote the article and I wanted to let you know that I was greatly encouraged by it. I am a young pastor (32yo) and I am starting my third year in the pastorate of a rural Baptist church in Alabama. I have grown greatly distressed over the passed couple of years at the lack of reverence for God and the lack of true biblical conversions in the "church". I quote the word "church" with the understanding that all members of Christ's true church have been truly converted but unfortunately we have populated our roles with unregenrate people and have placed them in leadership postions without ever having had them meet biblical qualifications. I digress......
Your article spoke to me specifically in the area of cooperation between true churches and those who "claim" to be of the faith. The scriptures are clear that we are not all on the same team and that there will be and are those who will seek to decieve even the elect (Matt 24:24). Unless we are preaching and adhering to sound biblical doctrines then we are in direct violation of the word of God (1 Tim 1:3, 6:3, Titus 1:9, 2:1). If a "church" is in violation of teaching sound biblical doctrines, then how can a true church colaborate with them on kingdom efforts?
I recently had a family member rave about the preaching and ministry of "lifechurch.tv". I looked into it only to find myself divided on what I though about it. The pastor states that his prayer is for ALL churches to become "one" (see one article at: http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080404/31809_LifeChurch_Readies_%27One_Prayer%27_Launch_for_Global_Church_Impact.htm). Here is a quote from the article:
"At Life Church, Groeschel plans to preach "Make Us One" and thereafter show video messages from other pastors including Ed Young of Fellowship Church whose one prayer is to make the church "creative;" Perry Nobel of NewSpring Church whose prayer is "Make Us Dangerous;" and Jentezen Franklin of Free Chapel who will teach "Make Us Passionate."
Do we "the church" not exist for Christ and His glory? Each of the above statements has to do with "make us"..... If we are in Christ has He not already made us something greater than the above list? Are we not now holy and righteous for His names sake?
I struggle with my own skepticism and negativity here, but I could not help but relate it to what you wrote. I think the bible is clear that those who are of the faith are united and that we as pastors and elders MUST be diligent to protect the flock from the enemy, even if the enemy appears to be a sheep.
Your thoughts?
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Please feel free to comment or add your thoughts.....
He Finished Well: A Tribute to Mike Stohlmeyer
8 hours ago
2 comments:
On one hand it seems like we're on the verge of revival, while on the other it seems like we're about to cross a line that can't be uncrossed.
People like to be part of big things. We've discussed the 'Pentecostal Movement' recently and determined (from our perspective) that a lot of it is a human desire to have this preconceived notion of a 'God-experience' and not really experiencing God. I can't explain a lot of these 'revivals' that are breaking out in the PM crowd, but let's say that on one occasion, God chooses to let a child die instead of healing them. Is He still God?
This other stuff seems more and more like just another 'movement' that, as has been stated could deceive 'even the elect'. Are they really anything more than just an elaborate production in a decked out church/arena with a dynamic speaker wearing trendy pants that mentions things like 'We need to be one - log on and create a user id'.
I know that as the Church of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we should be one, but we are. But we are also to be holy, set apart from the madness and confusion of mock revivals that do nothing more than market the power of Almighty God.I don't think He needs advertising help!
I could be wrong about a lot of these things and I may be repenting later, but a lot of these 'Spiritual Gatherings' are looking eerily (I think I just mispelled that)similar to each other.
Keep preaching the Word, God will bring revival where and when He wants.
PART 2 of the conversation:
Brother Kevin Pauley's response to my initial email are below and the upper portion is my return email.
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PastorJ wrote:
My dear brother in Christ,
Again I find myself encouraged by your words. These biblical principles are EXACTLY what I have been expounding to my congregation for over two solid years now. I honestly find myself to be quite fearful for those who apparently have never read the passages that you quoted (Matt. 7 and the like). I was also in the Marines and worked in HUMV mounted satellite systems. I was responsible for piping imagery and intelligence to the people who could interpret the data and relay that to battlefield commanders. I find myself still being utilized as a conduit except now for the Lord our God.
For too long now congregations have gone on through life without ever having understood the true gospel of Christ. Preachers are preaching half truths and literally raping the scriptural text by taking things out of context. We also have deacons who can no more rightly divide and handle the word than a 7 year old child. This past week we had a church member who sent their child to a sister churches vacation bible school. On Wednesday night I received a phone call from the parents and they were under a great amount of distress and contention. Their 6 year old daughter had come in and announced that she had been saved. Both of these parents are true converts in the faith and immediately began to question their daughter about what had went on. The answers that this 6 year old young girl gave were a stunning revelation to the state of many "churches" today. She said that her entire class was taken down to the front of the church and a lady told them that if they wanted to be saved, all they had to do was "pray this prayer". Of course, a room full of 6 year olds begin to pray a scripted prayer lead by an adult and the lady then tells them that they are saved. Last I checked, it is the Spirit of God that bares witness within us that we are children of God. How many children have grown up in an unregenerate state because they solely base their salvation on 30 second decision at a bible school instead of hearing the word of God and being called unto repentance. The parents asked their daughter about sin and repentance and she did not truly understand what sin was. Her main response was this, "they told me I had to be saved and baptized to go to heaven".
The young girls father had a conversation with the pastor of that church on family night and expressed his concern. This was the pastors response, "Well, they way I see it, all you have to do is believe". Of course he is citing Romans 10:9 here, but as you stated earlier, there is much more to the context do not even the demons believe and tremble? There is more to salvation than simple belief, if this were the case then everyone who says that they "believe in God" would be accepted into God's family.
You quoted our Savior in Matt. 7 well my brother... Not EVERYONE and MANY will come in that day... and narrow is the gate and few are those who will enter. If MANY will be turned away and FEW are those who will enter, then how is that EVERY person I talk to in our community is going? Either they are wrong or the Bible is wrong...... I am sticking with the Bible.
I agree with you 100% on Cultural Christianity. I have gone from door to door in our rural community and this is a typical conversation:
ME: "What do you think will happen to you when you die?"
THEM: "I'll go to heaven"
ME: "Why?"
THEM: "Because I am a Christian"
ME: "Oh, ok... so you read the Bible and you have been born again by the Spirit of God! That's wonderful! Tell me about your conversion?"
THEM: "My what? Born again? I mean.... I don't go to church or read my bible like I should and I know that there are a lot of things I do that God does not approve of, but I believe in Him and I am going to heaven."
ME: "So let me try and understand this.... You don't do any of the things that are characteristic of a biblical Christian, but you are one?"
THEM: "That's right.... I've got things I have to get back to.... sorry I can't talk any more..."
They cannot intelligently iterate salvation but somehow they are saved? They do not bare any fruit of the Spirit but yet they are saved?? They live like they are born of their father the devil but yet they are saved????
Grace and peace to you as well my brother. You expound and exegete well and I enjoy your words concerning our Savior. May the Lord use us to further His kingdom and yet at the same time practice appropriate church discipline and circumsize our congregations of cancers that negate and proclaim twisted and corrupt image of our gracious Savior Jesus Christ.
Please check out my blog if you have have time...... I will definitely continue visiting your sites and I pray that one day the Lord will cross our paths.
J
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Brother KP wrote:
Good morning!
When I was in the Marines I was a cryptolinguist who was trained to work in reconnaissance. One of our roles was to be "force amplifiers". Force amplifiers go into enemy territory, find enemies of our enemy, arm them, train them, and give them direction so that they can effectively bring down our common foe. When became a full time pastor one of my first thoughts was to come alongside the various denominational churches in our county and seek to form alliances so that we could share resources and wisdom in our battle against our common enemy - the devil. I'm sad to say that I have been woefully unsuccessful. For one thing, there are constant "turf wars" and fears of "sheep stealing."
For another there is a strange marriage of apathy against righteousness coupled with a passion and drive for wickedness in the hearts of many of the pastors. I have a Presbyterian pastor who thinks all paths lead to the Truth and is not sure that Jesus Christ even existed! I have a Methodist pastor who preaches more out of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" (a Mormon sponsored series) than he does out of the Bible. I recently went to the Moody Pastor's Conference held in Chicago. I was deeply disturbed by what I saw there. There were teachers basing their entire course on a single verse or even half a verse taken out of context and twisted until the text bled, with hundreds of pastors listening attentively...and not one challenged these men. There were pastors there who (when I quoted passages of the Old Covenant) had the pages of their Bibles still sticking together! They'd never read those areas of their Bibles!
If you go to www.adonaism.org you can see a new website that I just started a couple weeks ago and read of some of my frustrations and what I feel the Lord has called me to do about it. We need to cooperate with other believers in order to get the Great Commission done. My difficulty is that apparently the vast majority of Christians are not believers. They are Christ followers in name only. They are "cultural Christians". In that case "be not yoked with unbelievers" is the rule.
You may say, "But they claim Christ and do many wonderful works". I respond with:
Matthew 7:21-23 HCSB"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?' (23) Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
you may say, "But they believe in God!" I respond with:
James 2:19-20 HCSB You believe that God is one; you do well. The demons also believe--and they shudder. (20) Foolish man! Are you willing to learn that faith without works is useless?
How do we know which men are the real deal? How do we know with whom to cooperate and with whom we may form an alliance to accomplish our great task?
1 John 4:1-3 HCSB Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (2) This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. (3) But every spirit who does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist; you have heard that he is coming, and he is already in the world now.
Matthew 7:16-17 HCSBYou'll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?(17)In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
Confessing Christ is no mere verbal assent. It is not a token nod to the Master as though to add a cultural context to our moral platitudes. If their appeal does not lead the people to confess Christ, confesss their sins, repent of them and begin performing the works of righteousness to which they have been called (Ephesians 2:8-10) - they are not worthy to be the Master's disciples. Be friendly but don't waste your time working with them. Instead try to convert their poor deluded hearts.
I hope my passionate tone has not offended, but I think we are in a time when passionate outcries are needed more than ever. I'm in this to win as many back from the clutches of the dark kingdom as possible.
Kol tuv al shalom (All good things above and beyond peace to you)
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