I think I need to say I don't agree with everything in Paul Levertoff writing on tithing.
I am still at a loss as to where our system of tithing comes from, not because I want to change the way I/we do it. But I don't want to make our own "laws". I.E. things we perceive as right or what we are suppose to do and its no where in scripture. I AM NOT SAYING GIVING OF TEN % OF GROSS INCOME GOES AGAINST SCRIPTURE. I am saying I can't find where we come up with the system we have been taught all of our lives. Our system of tithing and I am speaking of tithing only, I just wonder(ed) if anyone knew how it evolved into what it is today. And that maybe as simple as its been adapted to our culture today. I don't know. I just want to make sure what I do is scripturally based, what I say is backed by scripture, because some of what I have been taught about being a good little baptist all my life is nowhere in scripture. And I guess there in lies the problem, I am being taught about being a good little baptist and not about what scripture says about the Christian life. (Jodey, I am not talking about you, or your current sermon series.) We are going through scripture, that happens to be in the Baptist Faith and Message for those that might not know. But our pastor isn't teaching on how to be a good baptist, he is teaching us what scripture says.
I guess just the more and more I read the bible for myself, I find out some of what I have been taught all my life in baptist churches isn't in scripture. (and that is my fault for not reading and studying scripture for myself) I could not care any less about being a baptist, I want to follow scripture. And I don't want to be a false teacher. I don't want to tell someone something that isn't in scripture, just because I heard someone else say it from a stage in a building, behind a wooden box. Yes Jason, I know what you're thinking and I don't want to be a mockingbird, and I don't want a new law. (ha) Jason will understand and most likely smile and/or laugh.
I just want to know scripture correctly and apply it correctly and I find out more times than not, that I am not.
I'm not saying our system of tithing is wrong, but I don't know if it lines up with scripture or not, and I in simple mind was wandering how it got to be what it got to be. Common sense tells me it just evolved to what it is because of culture, but I really want to know how it got to be what it is today.
As in my original post on tithing I think we can glean that we are suppose to support the ministry and Kingdom work. I don't breed animals or grow crops so money to buy food for widows would have to be given. And maybe our tithing system is that simple. I do understand God doesn't need my dollar, but I also understand He wants my dollar, (not literally cash, like Jason said heaven doesn't have a building fund) He chooses for us to play a vital role in Kingdom work. I don't however always understand that, but He is God and He involves us in a work we cannot do. (He can through us)
And I don't so much have a problem with our tithing system I guess as much as I do with someone saying that buying study material or service to the Lord is tithing because its not. If we define tithing as service some people would never have to write a check. And folks like me should probably write twice as many. I just think we should be careful to define stuff the way it was originally defined, because the way we define things has horribly misrepresented scripture at times.
I'll quit rambling now, I think I have for the whole post.
So, does anyone have any references as to where or how tithing is what it is today?
Saturday, January 26, 2008
Paul Levertoff
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2 comments:
I think that the case for the tithe has been made in previous posts. It is clearly established throughout the OT. It is there in the first book (Genesis) and it is there in the last book (Malachi).
We know that the financial system was much different then as opposed to today's economy with auto tech's, unix admins, full time pastor's, etc...
But one point remains the same... The tithe is not something that God mandated to fulfill His financial needs (as stated). The tithe is a response. It was a response for Abraham, it was a response for Jacob and it is most definitely a response for us.
The fact of the tithe is simply what it says, a tenth of a whole amount. I think this is understood as well.
I guess our traditional method of tithing, ie. giving a tenth of our income right of the bat, is in keeping with the word of God in Malachi 3:7-12.
Tithing was never part of the "Law" of God, but tithing was/is instructed. OT tithers were able to pass down this godly response to their children and it is no different today. Hopefully we can all have a conversation with our own children one day about just exactly why we give money to a God who doesn't need it.
It is not an attempt to win the favor of God or gain salvation. It is quite simply our response to the Owner of all things.
Take the bringing of the firstfruits for example. The lesson in this is not to bring apples and oranges but to ensure that God gets the pick of the crop. Our response to salvation should scream that God gets my best, my Tropicana pure premium, never from concentrate best. I don't process the good stuff out and then freeze it for a while only to give it to God later.
Proverbs 3:9-10 --- Honor the LORD with your possessions, And with the firstfruits of all your increase; So your barns will be filled with plenty, And your vats will overflow with new wine.
NOTE: This verse says nothing about rolex's, Hummer's or other such bling.
The blessings referenced in Proverbs and Malachi are blessing from heaven. He will keep food on the table and water in the cup.
Consider what the prophet Haggai said concerning those who "earn wages only to place them in a purse with holes".
Haggai 1:5-11
5 Now therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts: “Consider your ways!
6 “ You have sown much, and bring in little;
You eat, but do not have enough;
You drink, but you are not filled with drink;
You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm;
And he who earns wages,
Earns wages to put into a bag with holes.”
7 Thus says the LORD of hosts: “Consider your ways! 8 Go up to the mountains and bring wood and build the temple, that I may take pleasure in it and be glorified,” says the LORD. 9 “You looked for much, but indeed it came to little; and when you brought it home, I blew it away. Why?” says the LORD of hosts. “Because of My house that is in ruins, while every one of you runs to his own house. 10 Therefore the heavens above you withhold the dew, and the earth withholds its fruit. 11 For I called for a drought on the land and the mountains, on the grain and the new wine and the oil, on whatever the ground brings forth, on men and livestock, and on all the labor of your hands.”
Tithing is definitely a monetary structure and a person's time should not and cannot be included in a biblical tithe. To add to that, the purchasing of any types of materials for "the church" cannot and should not be counted as a tithe.
I would agree that anyone who claims these items to be a portion of their firstfruits is sadly mistaken in their understanding of tithing. They are failing to return to God (robbing) that which He is due (as a response) and also robbing themselves of the heavenly blessings of God.
Hope this helped???
It does, I think I worked through it myself. I was just wandering where what we do comes from and I think I for some reason want more complex reasoning. Why? I don't know. I usually don't understand complex. And I guess I wasn't as worried about what tithing is as opposed to what it is not. It is easier for me to tell you what something is not rather than what it is and I get frustrated when I hear someone saying things about scripture that are not.
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